Tag Archives: siduction

Debian fell over

With systemd 230, released a couple of days ago, the developers changed a default setting, that eliminates one of the few annoyances I experienced with systemd. Many a forum thread all over the net tried to solve the problem. This annoyance resulted in a message during reboot or shutdown, that the system is waiting for a process to shut down. This could take up to 90 seconds, if you did not set the level lower manually. These were stray background processes, that belonged to one or more users on the system and should have been shut down, when the owning user gets logged out.

The systemd developers with systemd 230 set the option KillUserProcesses in /etc/systemd/logind.conf to yes. That means that 95 percent of desktop users will not see these delays anymore, because all processes of a user will be closed when the user gets logged out. On the other hand, users of tools like screen, tmux and some others will find their processes also killed server-side, even though these were meant to be long-running background jobs. That being said, the devs did explain in the release note for systemd 230 under the third bullet, what users of such tools need to do to keep KillUserProcesses on yes and still have their long-running jobs stay alive. The problem at hand was being layed out in detail in a bugreport and it’s follow-up discussion already in April.

In Debian and Fedora this new behaviour led to long discussions (and the usual systemd laments of course). The bug report for Debian on this matter now led to the new standard setting being reverted in Debian with systemd 230-2 as of today. So, if you like your processes being stopped when your user logs out, you need to manualy revert the setting in /etc/systemd/logind.conf to yes again after updating to systemd 230-2. We decided months ago to have this set to yes as default for siduction. This will take effect with our next release. But if you want to set this to yes now, you need to do so yourself.

Should you be one of the users of screen, tmux, mosh and maybe a few other affected tools, there is ways to keep the setting at yes and still keep long running processes alive when logging out. You need two things to do this: first you set enable-linger [USER1 USER2...] for your respective users, as shown in the manpage to loginctl. PAM has been adapted to allow this as normal user. Then you can follow the manpage of systemd-run to start e.g. screen with the command systemd-run --scope --user screen in it’s own scope. This will keep the job running after logout, even though other user processes are stopped.

We admired Debian for deciding pro systemd, but we think, reverting this new default is the wrong decision in the face of desktop users.

We are on solid grounds

Two weeks can make a difference. We had our fortnightly core-meeting tonight. Most of the topics were over-fulfilled, so that, after 20 minutes, we set off to open discussion on releasse-flavours and related topics. The log from the meeting is, as always online.

After the meeting, another interesting discussion started, as someone brought up the issue of non-free firmware. Reason for the discussion was the fact, that users of ATI graphic-cards will only see a scrambled desktop that is utterly unusable. They would idealy need the package firmware-linux-nonfree shipped on the image. As the name suggests, it is in the non-free section and can’t be shipped if you want to follow the dfsg. Two members of the core-team said, they would ship it because users range before politics. Two others, including me, spoke up against this. I made my position on the matter clear as driven snow on 2011-07-26, long before we even decided to start this adventure. Unfortunately its in german, but google-trans should be able to get it across. Anyways, after some time we agreed, there must be a way to satisfy both groups. So, be sure we will find an acceptable solution for this.

On another topic: All those waiting for an image to test, can start holding their breath:  Within the next 2 or 3 days we will provide kde/xfce images for download that i would call on the verge from alpha to beta. Mostly fully functional, but visuals as well as package-sets are up for changes still. We will contact all users in the test-team to get feedback on behaviour on different sets of hardware.

Developer Meeting ‘Roadmap to Release’

We just finished a dev-meeting to try and get a firmer grip on the timeline and the workload that stands between us and a release. Let me say a few words on the respective topics.

  • Setting up the Buildserver

We agreed on aptosid as the operating system for the build-server. It is known to just work well with pyfll. We will swap it for siduction after the initial release.

  • What is the state of the Installer-Frontend

The installer-frontend is mostly ready.The CSS needs to be done still as part of the Corporate Design.

  • How will it play with the Backend

We need to work on the calls of the backend-routines. This will be done in 2-3 weeks.

  • What is the state of the packages from fullstory that need be forked?

There is work to be done on the packages we need to fork and on the package lists. I will try to provide an estimate of the workload within a week.

  • Repository ready for primetime?

The package repository is good to go.

  • Mirrors

We learned, that GoingEasy9 dug up 3 mirrors in the US of A. they are pull-mirrors with daily rsync runs. We need a mirror or 2 in Germany to start off. One of them needs to be a push-mirror. We can try Braunschweig or Chemnitz Universities or NetCologne (i have contacts there).

We agreed, we are still within our timeline for a release in 2011 (if sid is tame)

The log of the meeting is available in the Chili Wiki.

We also had a Core-Team Meeting on several topic tonight. The log is online .

siduction Developer Meeting

On Sunday, 2011-10-09 at 19:00 UTC +2 we have a developer- and core-team meetíng on IRC OFTC in #siduction-dev. Its time to finalize plans on how to move towards a release in less then 3 months. Topics wil include:

  • Setting up the Buildserver
  • What is the state of the Installer-Frontend
  • How will it play with the Backend
  • What is the state of the packages from fullstory that need be forked?
  • What is our proposed Release-Kernel?
  • Repository ready for primetime?
  • Mirrors?

The meetig is open, visitors invited. There will, as always, be a log of the meeting available afterwards

Our Blog got a Workover

After a few days of downtime or partial downtime WordPress has surrendered to agaidas thorough strive to have this blog bilangual in german and english. The english section is availabe at http://news.siduction.org, whereas the germal part is at http://de.news.siduction.org. some minor work is still to be done, in the backend as well as visualy, but no more downtime is to be expected. Thanks agaida for not giving up 🙂


Almost 2 weeks now since we started and more than 130 people have registered, many of whom are well-known users that I haven’t seen in a long time, because they had already turned their backs on aptosid’s predecessor. But also lots of totally unknown people, who are of course equally welcome.

So far there is not much to see, but this will change rather quickly in the next weeks. First we are still busy finding a name. Please participate with your own ideas or by voting for a proposal till Sunday, August 14th, 12:00 (CEST).

Also have a look at our wiki, it’s already filled with lots of hints, where it will take us from here. We of course specially appreciate those, who sign themselves up for any of our Teams.

And please visit us in our IRC channel #newsid on irc.oftc.net, ask questions and/ or offer your help or just idle there.